TEHELKA: Actually if you look at it, what was her (Zaibunissa Kazi) role really?
Satish Maneshinde: Nothing much.
The bag was kept at her house.
And she did not even see what was inside.
She opened the zip a little and kept it for two-three days.
The problem is she kept the bag because she received a call… This has come on record.
See, Salem’s trial is not part of this case and the only statement is the one made by Manzoor who says the bag was kept.
There is no evidence against her. She did not even know what was inside the bag…
We are hopeful because you have succeeded in helping Sanjay Dutt…
I can help you in the Supreme Court. Nothing can be done locally now.
Then she has to surrender?
She will have to surrender. Then we apply for bail in the Supreme Court… All ladies have been given the benefit. I feel the judge may give them the benefit.
But she has been convicted under TADA, but not Sanjay Dutt…
I also say the same thing. If (TADA) was not applied to Sanjay Dutt, the people in the chain should not have been put under TADA.
Correct, because the chain is the same.
It’s the same chain… People who destroyed (the weapons) have not been given TADA… She did not know what was inside the bag… I think she will get a benefit in the Supreme Court, but till then, she will be in difficulty.
For the sake of discussion, if one compares the case, then there is very little against her. The weapons were not meant for her. Her mistake was that she knew Abu Salem.
Yeah. She was told somebody would come with the bag, keep it for some time.
See. Coming back to comparisons, Sanjay Dutt was even supposed to have spoken to Anees Ibrahim.
Woh to kuchh record pe aaya nahi hai (that has not come on record).
It has not come on record?
They could not prove it.
The CBI?
Because they could not connect the phone numbers. Even if somebody spoke, they cannot prove that Sanjay Dutt spoke to Anees.
No, the point we are trying to make is that the guy for whom the arms were meant, the guy at whose house the arms were found, is not denying possession.
See, till the judgement is pronounced, I cannot do anything. Whatever has to be done, has been done. After the judgement is pronounced, you can apply for bail.
We did not even join the families who are protesting outside the court.
That will not make a difference because the judge has already passed the order. Now he is going to pass the sentence. I think all ladies will get minimum punishment.
Then why was TADA not applied on him?
On whom?
Sanjay Dutt?
Because the judge did not find evidence that he could be convicted under TADA. I also do not know the reasons…
Or because he is a big man.
No, I can’t say that.
He is a star. Because he did possess the weapon. Even he does not deny that.
If you try to compare her with Sanjay Dutt, I cannot put my hands in it. Because whatever you are saying, I may not say in court, but it is going to be in conflict with Sanjay Dutt. If you say had Sanjay Dutt not been involved, Zaibunissa would have never got involved, and you say that he is out because he is a big man, that is not how I will deal with the case.
We are just expressing our anguish.
I can understand.
The reason we are seeing hope is because it is human to make a comparison with Sanjay Dutt.
No, I am not finding any fault with that. Tomorrow, if the Supreme Court asks me if the person convicted under TADA is the person who delivered it to Sanjay Dutt… Baba Chauhan… I am just trying to… don’t go outside and talk about it. Hanif Kadawala is no more, Samir Hingora accompanied the car… it was not even his own car… He came up to Sanjay’s house to deliver the weapons, he did not open the weapons. Abu Salem opened the weapons. He has been convicted under TADA. The person who took them away from his house, Manzoor, has been convicted under TADA. Zaibunissa, who did not even know Sanjay Dutt, who did not know from where it came, she is convicted under TADA. So if the Supreme Court asks me that, in the chain, the persons who gave and the person who received are convicted, why your client should not be convicted under TADA, I don’t have an answer. If Sanjay Dutt, according to the judge, is possessing the weapon for self-defence, why should somebody else be convicted who has no connection? That is going to be the argument I am going to face.
In any case it’s an assault rifle, it’s hardly for self-defence.
But if your case is going to be in conflict with Sanjay Dutt, I can help you only from behind the curtain… if there is a conflict then I do not want to be directly involved. I’ll help you.
Will it cost a lot?
See I am not appearing in this matter only for money. So money is not the criteria. But there must be some chance for me to help… I realise that injustice is done to you. But I can’t say it in court. I have discussed this with my lawyer teams. This is the difficulty I am going to face.
Can you save her from going to jail after the judgement is pronounced?
Law does not permit. Suppose Sanjay Dutt does not get probation, he is also going to be sentenced. I can’t stop his going to jail if he does not get probation. I have saved him till now. But there is no guarantee that I will save him after the judgement.
But you have done a fine job of helping him.
God has been great with Sanjay Dutt, ultimately he is getting the benefits.
Was it difficult?
Quite difficult. But don’t be under the impression that just because Sanjay Dutt has not been convicted under TADA, he will not be punished. I am not certain that he will get probation. Jab tak sas chal rahi hai, chal rahi hai (his fate is hanging by a thread). There is no difference between TADA and the Arms Act. If Sanjay Dutt gets punishment, he will still get five years, your mother (Kazi) also will get five years.
But under TADA, the minimum is five years and maximum is life?
Your mother will not get the maximum. I am telling you.
But look at the difference in evidence.
Anyway… the judge has given concession to him because he has confessed. That it was for self-protection. I am not certain whether the Supreme Court will agree.
Because of the nature of the weapon?
There are so many circumstances… Don’t think about money, I will help you in whatever manner I can. I do not know whether you people know, there are some people who are still in Dubai.
Tiger Memon?
Not Tiger Memon, some other persons. They still consult me, I meet them, I come to Dubai. I do not charge them. Only phoning me and taking advice.
People who were accused in the blasts case?
Who are still accused but not arrested. Some are in other countries. They phone me, I help them. Like your mother, one person’s mother is here. She must be over 85 now. Her flat was sealed. I got it opened. So that way I helped here.
Whose mother is she?
Salim Kazi.
Just in pure human terms, how would you explain it to me? Zaibunissa just kept a bag. She did not possess or ask for weapons like Sanjay Dutt and she gets TADA but he gets the Arms Act.
There is no rationale, but I can’t say much.
On the same day she was convicted under TADA, half-an-hour later Sanjay Dutt was acquitted of TADA.
The moment she was convicted, I thought Sanjay would be convicted under TADA. Don’t be under the impression that Sanjay Dutt is acquitted.
We should have got in touch earlier.
I may not have appeared because it was in conflict with Sanjay Dutt.
